|Archive available at http://www.ChicagoCoinClub.org/|
|Volume 59 No. 10||October 2013|
The club auction is scheduled for 7PM, near the start of the regular November club meeting. In the past few years, club related material (and Chicago area numismatic items) have had the best results. Some printed material also has shown good results. Please consider using the club auction to dispose of the numismatic items you no longer need.
You can place a reserve on each lot, and there is no commission charged to either the buyer or seller. Auction lot viewing will be held before the meeting starts, and again briefly before the auction starts.
The November Chatter will contain a list of all auction lots that are known to us by Tuesday, October 29. You can either e-mail your list to Paul Hybert by Tuesday, October 29 if you plan to bring your lots with you to the November meeting; or you can ship your items to Bill Burd by Tuesday, October 29.
Chicago Coin Company
6455 W. Archer Ave.
Chicago, IL 60638
If you have questions, Bill can be reached at 773-586-7666.
The 1137th meeting of the Chicago Coin Club was held September 11, 2013 in the Chicago Bar Association Building, 321 S. Plymouth Court, Downtown Chicago. President Elliott Krieter called the meeting to order at 6:45 PM with an attendance of 25 members.
The members stood for a moment of silence honoring those who died in the terrorist attack on the U.S. exactly 12 years ago.
A motion was passed to accept the August Minutes as published in the Chatter. Treasurer Steve Zitowsky gave at detailed report showing July-August revenue of $9,802.23, expenses of $8,709.95, and total assets of $23,078.06 held in Life Membership $2,390.00 and member equity $20,688.06. A motion was passed to approve the report.
The applications of David T. Alexander (1219) and Robert F. Fritsch (1220) received second reading and they were voted into membership. It was also announced that Kevin Dailey’s application for Life Membership was accepted.
Mark Wieclaw, Host Chairman of the recent 2013 ANA Chicago Convention, spoke on how happy he is to be a member of the greatest coin club in the country, which brought a thunderous applause! He announced a Thank You dinner for all the Committee Chairmen next Wednesday September 18, 2013 at a site to be determined. Eugene Freeman, Chairman of Scout Activities, announced Scout attendance of 85 boys and 25 girls (34 boys and 4 girls in 2011). There were also 109 Scout Activity Patches distributed to Scouts from 60 organizations and 5 states.
President Krieter announced he will head up the Club’s Coin Week activities in April 2014. Members should expect to hear more details as the date approaches.
First VP Rich Lipman introduced the evening’s featured speakers, Eugene Freeman on Selling on E-Bay, and Robert Leonard onBuying on E-Bay. After an active question and answer session, plus members sharing their experiences, Rich presented Eugene and Robert with ANA Educational Certificates and engraved Club medals.
Second VP Marc Stackler introduced the evening’s 11 exhibitors. JOHN CONNOLLY: medals from NY Numismatic Club and from 1965 NY World’s Fair. DAVID GUMM: 1931 large penny from Australia and an U.S. 1811/10 (S286) large cent. EUGENE FREEMAN: silver soldina (1368-82) and cavallotto (1525-33) from Italy, a 1778 Transylvanian 20 kreuzer, and 1906 medal on U.S. Secretary of State Root’s visit to Peru. MELISSA GUMM: $1 banknote Dubuque Central Improvement Company, Dubuque, IA, and a Danville, IL Royal Donut wooden nickel. DARREN HOOPER: 1958D Lincoln Cent error and 3 high grade cents from 1915D, 1917 and 1926. ROBERT FEILER: $5 American Bank Note proof Madison & Indianapolis Railroad, cut-out 50 cent Columbian Expo, an enameled 1903 British 2-shillings, currency autographed at the recent ANA Convention by Rosi Rios, Treasurer of the U.S. MARK WIECLAW: 2.5 ounce silver Goodfellow Medal presented to every ANA Convention Host Chairman, elongated Mexican centavo, bronze medal honoring Ken and Tom Hallenbeck, the only father and son to serve as ANA Presidents, and a 1690 Irish gun money pewter crown. DALE LUKANICH: Byzantine follis Leo III, and a 1902 $50 National Series note from Commercial National Bank, Wilmington, IL. JAMES McMENAMIN: Columbian Exposition half dollars given him by relatives, an 1813 half stiver and an 1835 quarter guilder from Essequibo and Demerary (Guyana). RICHARD LIPMAN: encased U.S. cent Chicago’s Adler Planetarium, a copy of a $1000 note with advertisement on the reverse, a series of U.S. notes with unusual serial numbers, then a series of “error?” or “no error?” notes. ROBERT D. LEONARD, JR.: resultant coins from unusual flan preparation — Georgia and Athens.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 pm.
Carl Wolf, Secretary
The two following papers, presented at our September 11, 2013 meeting, present the two sides of using eBay. The emphasis is numismatic, and the actual presentations might have drifted from these planned remarks.
Selling on eBay
by Eugene Freeman
According to Wikipedia, eBay began on September 3, 1995, as Auction Web, because the founder wanted to create a “perfect market”. Growth for the company was explosive — they had 250,000 listings in all of 1996, and 2 million listings in the month of January 1997. In September 1997, the name was changed to eBay. (He wanted to name it Echo Bay, after his consulting group Echo Bay Trading, but that name was taken by a mining company, so he settled for his second choice.)
On September 1, 1997, I registered on eBay, moving from the auction site Collectors Universe. This month begins my 17th year buying and selling on eBay.
I once attended a seminar on selling on eBay, and I agree with one of their major recommendations, but for reasons they did not state. Before you begin to sell on eBay, make about 10-12 small purchases from eBay Sellers. Pay for the items promptly, give appropriate feedback, and ask for feedback if you do not receive it. The seminar wanted you to do this to establish your feedback ratings; I recommend it as a way to get examples of policies and packaging from a variety of Sellers. You do not have to mirror their policies or packaging, but it will give you an idea of what you will be competing against.
Starting on eBay:
Before you can buy your first item on eBay, you will have to select a username (select several — your favorite may already be taken). Pick a name that is easy for you to remember, does not reflect badly on you, and that you will not find difficult to type for thousands of times in the future!
You will have to have at least one e-mail account. (You may choose to have eBay notices and communications sent to one account, and payment notices sent to another account.) You can also determine which kinds of eBay communications you wish to receive. (They can send you a notice when every listing ends, or only when items have sold.)
You will also have to establish your payment method for eBay fees and chargebacks. This may be by prepayment to eBay, via PayPal (which is owned by eBay), via a credit card, or by direct draw from your checking account.
You will also need to decide whether your eBay account will be a Personal account or a Business account. This may be changed later; only a Business account can be an international Top-Rated Seller. At some point, you may choose to subscribe for an eBay store; this will affect how your fees are calculated and give you some listing options.
Listing Your First Item:
Before you list your first item on eBay, you will need to make decisions on the following:
Selling internationally on eBay is considerably more complex than selling within the U.S., and a beginner may choose to gain some experience before “diving in.” Even if you only list your items on eBay.com, they can be viewed by Buyers from around the world. When you list each item, you make a decision regarding countries to which you will ship. This will filter out some Buyers, unless they have changed their eBay addresses (some Buyers have a U.S. address for bidding, then request you to ship to a foreign address).
The official time for everything on eBay.com is Pacific Daylight Time. If you are here in Chicago, that means that a Free Listing Day would end at 2 am on the day after it is listed to end. It also means that, if you have designated to ship on the Next Business Day after payment, a payment received at 1:55 am (Chicago time) on Tuesday is supposed to be shipped on that same day!
Organizing and Storing your eBay Sale Items:
“Conventional wisdom” recommends that you imagine the largest area that you will need to store and organize your eBay sale items — and then double it! I really think that this is conservative. Consider tripling it. Depending upon how cheaply you price your items, their popularity, seasonality of the market, etc., you should plan to sell about 10% of your listed items in a month. That means that you have to keep up with the average item for up to 10 months!
Listing Multiple, Similar Items:
If you have similar items (such as a roll of state quarters) that you wish to sell singly, this can be done in two different ways:
Every experienced eBayer whom I have met, has had problems with listings being duplicated. This appears to happen mostly with Good ’Til Cancelled listings, and results in more sales than you can ship. When I list multiples of an item, I usually set my eBay quantity to one or two less than what I actually have on hand.
An eBay Customer Service person once told me that eBay had researched the duplicated listings problem, and found that it affected “less than 2 percent of their listings,” so they were not going to allocate programming assets to address it.
If you have a duplicated listing problem and fail to get the Buyer to agree to cancel the transaction within the indicated time period, eBay will keep your Final Value Fees on the sale, even if you have refunded the entire payment.
Listing Slabbed Coins:
Currently, if you are listing a single coin in the U.S. Coins category for $2,500 or more, the coin must be certified by an approved third party grading company. And ANY listing which lists a numeric grade must be graded by an approved third party grading company. Only NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and ICG are approved at this time.
If your item has been certified by another company, you may include a photograph of the item in the holder, and the numeric grade may visible, but you may not mention the numeric grade in the title or description of your item.
The fees that you incur in selling on eBay are the following:
If you are a Top-Rated Seller, you can receive a 20% discount on the Final Value Fees. In the past, this has not included the Final Value Fees on Shipping.
Feedback is the system that was established to give Buyers and Sellers insight into the integrity of the people with which they were dealing, but had never met. Originally, Buyers gave Sellers feedback as Positive, Neutral, or Negative, with a comment; Sellers gave Buyers feedback in the same forms. Only one feedback was counted for each Buyer to Seller and reverse, in the feedback rating.
Over the years, the system has changed dramatically. Now, it is as follows:
Feedback is economically important to a Seller. In addition to determining whether they get a discount on the Final Value Fees, the feedback affects how the Seller’s items are prioritized in Buyer search routines.
Personally, I believe that feedback should only be exchanged after the transaction has been completed, including the customer receiving the goods and being satisfied, or returning the item and being refunded. Ebay gives you options to give feedback on all transactions at one time, or even automatically on receipt of payment.
If you are a Seller on eBay, you will get Negative feedback. It will probably be on the cheapest item that you sell, and it will probably be unearned. Mentally prepare yourself for this — it will happen!
Going back to our original scenario of your making 10-12 small purchases from different Sellers, be aware that other new eBayers will now be making such purchases from you. Expect them to buy the cheapest item that you have listed, and expect them to request feedback, often immediately after they pay for the item. If you give feedback upon receipt of the payment, some of them will immediately ask you to cancel the transaction and refund their money.
If a Buyer opens a case on you, for an Item Not Received, Item Not as Described, etc., eBay will give you a number of days to respond. However, they will immediately deduct the full amount of the claim from your PayPal account or other payment source you have designated, even if this means the cancellation of a transfer to your bank account that you initiated a few days ago. The deduction may be for the entire payment, even if the item in question is a single item in a large transaction.
The monies will not be released to you until the Buyer closes the case, or eBay receives the proof it requires.
Ebay gives each of us access to a world market, to Buyers and Sellers we would never have contacted otherwise. The impact that this has had on our industry is enormous.
Buying on eBay
by Robert D. Leonard, Jr.
eBay is teeming with overgraded, overpriced, dodgy, and — yes — fake coins. It is also a dumping ground for low-grade junk unfit for major auction houses. Protect yourself!
But there are also bargains — sometimes great bargains — to be found, if you know how to find them. Here are some tips:
Check everything in a category if possible; don’t limit your search. Check for misspellings: if you collect Morgan dollars, also search for “Morgen” dollars, for example (eBay seems to have cleaned up this particular example, but others will occur to you).
Understand varieties in your field: “Buy the Book Before the Coin,” as Aaron Feldman often wrote. Examples: a rare coin of Syria under Persian occupation listed as Byzantine; a zecchino of Hospitaller Rhodes listed as a common one of Venice; an 18th century Mexican hacienda token listed as a Byzantine coin; a rare Islamic countermark listed as a Byzantine coin; and a couple of exceptionally valuable Crusader coins offered as Byzantine (missed them both!). Obviously I study the Byzantine listings a lot, but other cherry pickers have ripped rare varieties of Large Cents, Indian Head cents, a seated dime, etc.
Check the seller’s feedback before bidding. Avoid sellers with zero or very low feedback.
If in any doubt, check to see whether feedback is from selling or buying. Example: a Polish seller about ten years ago who built up feedback by buying stamps for less than $1 each (possible back then), then listed dozens of gold coins for sale at very low prices; his auctions were fortunately canceled by eBay.
If feedback is less than 100% positive, look at feedback as a seller to see what problems were complained of; view the item (if possible) to see whether you agree. Also check Positive feedback for doubtful Positives, such as “item smaller than expected,” “condition worse than described,” “description says not cleaned but was cleaned,” etc. A major red flag is a seller who insults buyers who leave negative or neutral feedback — always avoid them!
If even one bidder accuses seller of selling fakes — do not bid!
Never buy from any seller based in China. I personally avoid ancient Greek cons on eBay because of a high incidence of fakes: about five to ten years ago a ring in Canada sold hundreds (at least, maybe thousands) of fake Greek and Roman coins on eBay, and while they appear to have finally been suppressed, unsuspecting buyers may be reselling them now.
Sales below face value or bullion value will generally not be consummated; do not waste time on them. Around the year 2000, a seller ran many auctions offering future issues of U.S. state quarters on a when-issued basis. These auctions closed below face value, say $50 face for $46 or so, and the seller said that he did not care because he was collecting interest on the upfront funds before he had to buy the coins, and also that he was trying to build up his business. At first he shipped everything and received positive feedback, but as more auctions closed and more money came in… well, you can guess when the last bidders received their rolls. EBay has a protection plan for this now, but why put yourself out?
Also, eBay — while it does not permit “replica” coins to be sold — allows bogus 1 ounce silver and gold bars to be listed. These are plainly marked “One Troy Ounce .999 silver” or similar but somewhere in small letters it says “Layered,” i.e., they have practically no silver or gold at all. And plenty of replicas are being listed as “tributes” or even as copies or replicas, just not in the title (description only).
U.S. Colonial and Fractional, Pioneer Gold categories have mostly or nearly all non-Colonial and non-Pioneer Gold listed. If interested in “Fractional” Pioneer Gold, remember that no “BG” number (or a BG number in the 1300s) almost always indicates a modern phony. There do seem to be one or two reliable sellers of Colonial coins on eBay, selling very low-grade material, however.
Auctions with a reserve price are supposed to indicate this, but some sellers start low and use shill bidders to run up the price — though this is strictly prohibited by eBay. One example is “centsles,” a self-slabber who was recently accused by a buyer of Photoshopping an image to remove a blemish. Some of these shills are very obvious, but others are more subtle and the most deceptive use multiple shill accounts. To detect shill bidding, watch for last-day bidders who bid on hundreds of auctions, including auctions for unrelated items, or who bid 100% or nearly so on the auctions of a single seller. I never bid on any auction where the seller uses shills.
Finally, a discussion of bidding strategies is in order. The worst way, in my opinion (though I have done it myself recently) is to raise the bid a little at a time, as if you were at a floor auction. There is a good chance that you will overpay, or be “sniped,” that is, outbid in the final 8 seconds, when you have no time to respond with a higher bid. There are several sniping services; I have used eSnipe for a number of years and it has never failed me. You buy points in advance, and eSnipe debits them when it wins an auction for you. Cost is minimal and you probably recover it in lower auction payments.
If the auction has a determinable value (to you), just set your limit and bid it in the beginning. You will be bid up by others trying to buy the lot on the cheap, but after finding that they have been outbid by the same bidder several times, they will generally get discouraged and quit. Of course, if someone else wants it more, you will be outbid — but that is all right, because your maximum limit has then been exceeded.
But if the lot is a sleeper and you do not want to attract attention to it, then do not bid at all, but set a snipe bid instead. I advise not trying to get it cheap, no matter how far below retail it is; if it is a rare coin, bid full retail. It is not unusual for three snipe bids to hit on sleeper rarities.
Finally, eBay has a feature called Buy It Now, where the seller just sets a fixed price. Two of my greatest bargains came from using BIN, and a rare seated dime was snatched up this way a few weeks ago, according to Coin World.
|CSNS Convention||Chicago Coin Company|
|CPMX & CICF||Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.|
Items shown at our September 11, 2013 meeting,
reported by Marc Stackler
WHEREAS, on August 13 – 17, 2013, in Chicago, Illinois, the American Numismatic Association held its World’s Fair of Money Convention, a highly successful and outstanding event; and
WHEREAS, it is fitting that those individuals and organizations that helped achieve this success be recognized for their contributions and efforts; therefore be it
RESOLVED that the host organization, the Chicago Coin Club, be thanked for supporting this, their 13th ANA convention; and be it
RESOLVED that the following be thanked for their support of and contributions to this convention; Host Chairman Mark Wieclaw, Honorary Chairman Raymond Dillard, and local committee members, ANA National Volunteers, ANA President Thomas G. Hallenbeck, ANA Board of Governors and Appointed Officers, Executive Director Kimberly Kiick and her staff, especially Convention Director Rhonda Scurek, Exposition Manager Brian Miller, Convention Assistant Emily Silver and Sponsorship Manager David Truesdell for their dedicated and tireless work for this convention; and be it
RESOLVED that all reports delivered at the convention by ANA officers, staff members and committees be accepted with thanks; and that the Association thank convention sponsors and patrons for their generous financial support; and that the Donald E. Stephens Convention Center staff and the host hotels be thanked for their cooperation and assistance; and that the numismatic publications be recognized for their coverage and support of this convention; and be it
RESOLVED that the Association extend its gratitude and appreciation to the official auctioneer, Stack’s Bowers Galleries, for organizing outstanding auctions of numismatic material for this convention; and that the Association also thank Robert Brueggeman and Positive Protection, Inc. for providing convention security for collectors and dealers alike; and be it
RESOLVED that the Association express its thanks to the United States Mint and the Bureau of Engraving & Printing, and for participation by Treasurer of the United States Rosie Rios; and also to the many world mints and government agencies for their participation in this convention; and be it
RESOLVED that the Association express its sincere thanks and gratitude to all numismatists and institutions who shared their knowledge and/or collections in the ANA Museum Showcase, Collector Exhibits & Judges, Money Talks, Coin Week, Sundman Lecture Series and other educational programs, meetings and events; and be it
RESOLVED that the Association recognize the vital support and participation of the professional numismatists who purchase tables and serve collectors and the public at this event; and that all persons not herein recognized be thanked for their support, effort, time and contributions, without which a convention of this magnitude could not proceed with such ease and efficiency.
Chicago Coin Club Secretary Carl Wolf was awarded the Ralph C. Winquist Memorial Award on September 13th at the Illinois Numismatic Association annual convention in Tinley Park, Illinois.
The award was presented to Carl at a breakfast attended by ILNA Board members, dealers, and friends. ILNA president Steve Harrison, during his presentation, cited Carl’s many years of numismatic involvement with youth education and exhibiting. Also, Carl’s work with the Chicago Coin Club and recent spearheading of educational talks at the ILNA annual conventions.
|Date:||Octber 9, 2013|
At the Chicago Bar Association, 321 S. Plymouth Court, 3rd floor meeting room. Please remember the security measures at our meeting building: everyone must show their photo-ID and register at the guard’s desk. Nearby parking: South Loop Self Park, 318 South Federal Street; that is two short blocks west of our meeting site. Note: Their typical rate of $29 is reduced to $6 if you eat at the Plymouth Restaurant, 327 S. Plymouth Court (next to our meeting site at the CBA), show them your parking ticket, and ask the restaurant for a parking voucher. The restaurant offers standard sandwiches, burgers, and salads for members who want to meet for dinner. Another before-meeting favorite of some members is the Ceres Restaurant, located inside the Board of Trade Building, at LaSalle and Jackson.
|Featured speaker:||Gerry Anaszewicz — Pictorial Images on Islamic Coinage|
Most Islamic coins show only elaborate calligraphy as traditional Islamic belief forbids iconography. For 20 years, Gerry Anaszewicz has collected the few Islamic coins with pictorial images. Coins in his collection show images of animals, especially horses, birds, reptiles, flowers, signs of the zodiac, etc. Since die engravers worked under restrictions, whenever they created a pictorial scene, every ounce of their artistic talent was poured into their numismatic creation. There are also Islamic coins modeled after images and figures seen on the coins of ancient Greece and Rome. Join us for an evening of viewing coinage rarely seen at Chicago Coin Club meetings.
Unless stated otherwise, our regular monthly CCC Meeting is in downtown Chicago on the second Wednesday of the month; the starting time is 6:45PM.
|October||9||CCC Meeting - Featured Speaker - Gerry Anaszewicz on Pictorial Images on Islamic Coinage|
|November||13||CCC Meeting - Club Auction - no featured speaker|
|November||22-24||PCDA National Coin and Currency Convention at the Crown Plaza Chicago O’Hare, 5440 North River Road, Rosemont, IL. Admission is $5 for Friday through Sunday. Details at http://www.pcdaonline.com|
|November||23||CCC Meeting - 1pm at the PCDA National Coin and Currency Convention,
which is held at the Crown Plaza Chicago O’Hare, 5440 North River Road, Rosemont, IL.
No admission charge for our meeting.
Featured Speaker - Mark B. Anderson on Swedish Private Bank Note Era 1824-1906, with Observations on its Influence on the Creation of the Federal Reserve System
|December||11||CCC Meeting - Annual Banquet - Featured Speaker - Mark Wieclaw on Sculptures by U.S. Coin Designers Exhibited in Brookgreen Gardens|
All correspondence pertaining to Club matters
should be addressed to the Secretary and mailed to:
CHICAGO COIN CLUB
P.O. Box 2301
CHICAGO, IL 60690
|Elliott Krieter||- President|
|Richard Lipman||- First Vice President|
|Marc Stackler||- Second Vice President|
|William Burd||- Archivist|
|Other positions held are:|
|Jeffrey Rosinia||- Immediate Past President|
|Carl Wolf||- Secretary|
|Steve Zitowsky||- Treasurer|
|Paul Hybert||- Chatter Editor|
|Robert Feiler||- ANA Club Representative|
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